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Nick P
(@nickpaul)
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Posts: 25
 
Posted by: @elena1690

@nickpaul 

 I did an ultrasound of the arm where the injection was, my muscles are normal, but the doctor says that this is nerve damage.

@elena1690

Did your doctor say any more?  E.g. is this nerve damage due to the syringe needle physically hitting a nerve in the arm, or due to something else?  And, will it repair or recover?  I've been wondering if my injection site is still sore due to inflammation; alongside also wondering whether inflammation could be the cause of the other symptoms I experience (which trouble me a lot more than the sore arm, but I'm still curious as to what is going on with the arm).

 


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Nick P
(@nickpaul)
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Posted by: @sunrise
Posted by: @nickpaul

@marisanna21 

My GP prescribed 40mg of Citalopram (increasing from starting dose of 20mg), and Psychiatrist additionally introduced 15mg of Mirtazapine, taken at bedtime.  As I saw someone else report in their own case, it was the Psychiatrist who said this is not "just anxiety" and likely has physical causes, and returned me to the physical doctors. 

This psychiatrist is a very good doctor!

Because everyone can make very simple observations: it is normal to feel fear sometimes, and fear is actually an instrument of survival. And in difficult life conditions, such as when health problems occur, concern is natural.
Something else: there are many articles about researchers looking to map the brain, that is, for example, to identify areas of the brain that are more involved than others in the genesis of certain feelings. For example, the amygdala is a region of the brain that plays a role in fear.

Another observation: when a man drinks a glass of wine, why does he do it? To feel better, as feelings. To change how he feels. That is, certain substances, such as alcohol, obviously act in certain areas of the brain and change how a person feels.

There are people on this forum who have noticed that the feelings of fear, panic, they feel are not correlated with what naturally triggers fear.

I mean, of course, everyone has a health concern and everything that happens, but some say they have a quiet life situation and what they feel appears "out of nowhere", sometimes suddenly, unjustified, so it's something very different.

That is why it is very natural to understand that, in the context of symptoms such as: pressure on the head, headache, brain fog, sensation of electric current, burning sensation in the head, high temperature and all the other symptoms of the head, which have been described, lead very strongly to the assumption that the brain areas, which play a more important role in the genesis of the feeling of fear, are somehow disturbed, physically, organically.

Or maybe there are substances, from this inflammatory phenomenon, maybe, from the brain or that reach the brain, and that act as chemical mediators of anxiety, for a while, until they are inactivated.

@sunrise

Yes, I was grateful to the psychiatrist because she got other doctors to move beyond "it's just anxiety".  In addition to what you say above, my ENT Consultant explained to me that the brain can perceive a problem in the vestibular system and the resulting symptoms including dizziness, nausea, vision problems and more, as a massive threat and launch the flight or fight response - dumping adrenaline etc into the body, and causing anxiety and panic attacks. 

 


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Nick P
(@nickpaul)
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Posted by: @tennyson77

@nickpaul I disagree that it's permanent for most people.  When they gave me steroids, all my symptoms disappeared and I felt like I did pre-vaccine.. Once the steroids tapered off the symptoms of vertigo and dizzyness slowly came back.  To me that means it's inflammatory or immune-mediated.  I did the vestibular rehab and I don't think it really helped all that much, probably because there was still some underlying issue.  But I hope it works for you.

@tennyson77

Thanks for the reply.  Yeah, I simply don't know at this stage.  i.e. whether damage to my vestibular system is likely permanent as my ENT consultant thinks (he thinks the hair cells in the labyrinth are damaged) or whether in fact maybe there is no permanent damage, and symptoms of dizziness, nausea and all the rest are down to inflammation. 

In a way, I'd rather think the latter because it's a 'nicer' thought than thinking you've been permanently damaged.  But also I'm grateful for the hope offered that, if it's the former, then vestibular physiotherapy could be a path to recovery by helping the brain to compensate.  

I started the therapy today.  It certainly flared my symptoms, as it is intended to do, big time.  The physio had me move my eyes left-right, up-down, etc, while keeping my head still.  Sitting up, it was too much to bear, so she had me do the exercises lying down.  The room span, my vision pulsated, and the nausea was 8/10, though I was not actually physically sick.  I could only do each exercise for about 20 seconds.  I think I'm starting from a low baseline, and might have a long road of physical rehabilitation ahead of me.  I'll launch myself into that, if that's what it takes, no problem.  But finding out that inflammation was the cause all along, and as it settles down so do the symptoms, I would take that very happily. 

I had mentally logged with interest your earlier post about taking the steroids and symptoms disappearing.  My GP is happy for me to also get an opinion from an Immunologist as to whether there is anything inflammatory or immune-mediated going on.  I asked the GP whether steroids or IV immunoglobulin could be a potential route to try, and he wants the Immunologist to weigh in on this.

ENT hopes to see some improvement in my symptoms and functionality after six weeks of vestibular physiotherapy, which would also be about the same timescale as when my antibody levels from the vaccine should drop below 50, as per the antibody theory you and others on here discussed previously.  I hope via one route or another to make some progress, and start re-engaging with a fuller life. 

How are you getting on after your booster shot?    

 


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altennyson
(@tennyson77)
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Joined: 11 months ago
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Posted by: @nickpaul
Posted by: @tennyson77

@nickpaul I disagree that it's permanent for most people.  When they gave me steroids, all my symptoms disappeared and I felt like I did pre-vaccine.. Once the steroids tapered off the symptoms of vertigo and dizzyness slowly came back.  To me that means it's inflammatory or immune-mediated.  I did the vestibular rehab and I don't think it really helped all that much, probably because there was still some underlying issue.  But I hope it works for you.

@tennyson77

Thanks for the reply.  Yeah, I simply don't know at this stage.  i.e. whether damage to my vestibular system is likely permanent as my ENT consultant thinks (he thinks the hair cells in the labyrinth are damaged) or whether in fact maybe there is no permanent damage, and symptoms of dizziness, nausea and all the rest are down to inflammation. 

In a way, I'd rather think the latter because it's a 'nicer' thought than thinking you've been permanently damaged.  But also I'm grateful for the hope offered that, if it's the former, then vestibular physiotherapy could be a path to recovery by helping the brain to compensate.  

I started the therapy today.  It certainly flared my symptoms, as it is intended to do, big time.  The physio had me move my eyes left-right, up-down, etc, while keeping my head still.  Sitting up, it was too much to bear, so she had me do the exercises lying down.  The room span, my vision pulsated, and the nausea was 8/10, though I was not actually physically sick.  I could only do each exercise for about 20 seconds.  I think I'm starting from a low baseline, and might have a long road of physical rehabilitation ahead of me.  I'll launch myself into that, if that's what it takes, no problem.  But finding out that inflammation was the cause all along, and as it settles down so do the symptoms, I would take that very happily. 

I had mentally logged with interest your earlier post about taking the steroids and symptoms disappearing.  My GP is happy for me to also get an opinion from an Immunologist as to whether there is anything inflammatory or immune-mediated going on.  I asked the GP whether steroids or IV immunoglobulin could be a potential route to try, and he wants the Immunologist to weigh in on this.

ENT hopes to see some improvement in my symptoms and functionality after six weeks of vestibular physiotherapy, which would also be about the same timescale as when my antibody levels from the vaccine should drop below 50, as per the antibody theory you and others on here discussed previously.  I hope via one route or another to make some progress, and start re-engaging with a fuller life. 

How are you getting on after your booster shot?    

 

In terms of that theory I posted, there are ACE2 receptors on those hairs in the inner ear - so if there are anti-anbibodies attacking ACE2, that may be why it's triggering vertigo in some people.  There has been some recent research published talking about the ACE2 receptors there and how it may be related to vertigo in COVID and vaccine recipients.

I'm on day 8 now since my booster shot of Moderna.  I'd say I've had a slight regression these last few days in terms of some symptoms - my vertigo has been triggered a bit lately, especially at close distances.  But outside I feel almost 100% back to normal still (in that nothing feels like it's swaying, and even things in the distance seem real and sharp - that wasn't always the case).  And after dealing with this for six months, I feel like I'm much better able to cope with whatever side effects I'm feeling.  But at this point after my second shot in July of 2021, I was in the hospital.  So I suspect this week will be sort of the worst in terms of what I feel, then hopefully smooth sailings after that.  But so far I'd saw I only have a 10% regression, if that, and hopefully it goes away in a week or two. But I'll update then.  

I have another anti-body test on Friday, so I'll see how much the booster raised them all - I think I was down to 300 before, and I expect to be back to 10,000 level.

 

This post was modified 5 months ago 2 times by altennyson

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jacquelyn sauriol
(@jacquelynsauriol)
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Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 205
 

This forum is sponsored by the WHO who brought you the jabs in the first place.

Here is a good interview on the footballers falling, and some honest talk, this will get me kicked  off

so bye

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/video/2022/02/professional-athletes-dropping-left-right-pro-footballer-commentator-goes-on-the-record/?utm_source=right-rail-latest


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Nick P
(@nickpaul)
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Joined: 6 months ago
Posts: 25
 
Posted by: @sherig

@sickofthis 

After several visits to ENTs with no consensus on diagnosis, (BPPV, Labyrinthitis etc), I went to a "neuro-otologist" who ordered VNG and caloric testing.  The test did reveal 30% damage to my right inner ear.  (I had 7 mos of vertigo after J&J among other side effects).  At least this test showed definitive damage.  I had gone to vestibular therapy throughout the ordeal (of some very debilitating vertigo) but ultimately, I think it was time that was most restorative.  My tinnitus is louder than ever and I don't expect that to ever go away.  I wish you the very best of luck!

@atp223 @sherig In response to @sickofthis you each said your ENT doctors confirmed damage or problems with your left / right (respectively) inner ear and / or vestibular system.  I am curious whether this correlates with the side of the body where you had your Covid vaccination.  My ENT has diagnosed a problem in my vestibular system on the left side, I had my vaccination in my left arm.  The distance from the upper arm to the ear on the same side of the body is of course not far.  I'm wondering if something in the vaccine travelled the short distance to the ear and caused the damage or inflammation. 

I'm aware this might argue against the more systemic inflammation throughout the body theories, and maybe it is too simplistic to be correct.  Like 99% of us I am not a doctor, and we are in part having to figure this out for ourselves.  I'd be interested in anyone else's knowledge, experience, or theories, on the same ...

And, on that point, I'd add my voice to others to thank everyone on this forum for all the information, ideas and support.  It is so valuable and appreciated - hopefully every one of us can benefit in some way from the collective.

 


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atp223
(@atp223)
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Joined: 1 year ago
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Both shots were in my left side and all the damage (vestibular, eye, ear fullness) was left side. Most of my doctors say that since the reaction was six days after my second dose it was my immune system generally and not something related to where the shot was…HOWEVER, our pediatrician made that connection as well and suggested we vaccinate my children in the thigh. 

My 6 year old was really annoying about it, so we compromised on one shot in left arm and one in right arm just to mix it up. We also spaced his doses 7 weeks (I was aiming for 12, but I wanted him to have the second dose before school started because of omicron). However, my 3 year old doesn’t know any better and she will be getting her shots in the butt or thigh.


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Adelaide
(@adelaide)
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Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 31
 

@sickofthis Hi again – it’s hard to put a percentage on things, but it’s definitely not close to 100% since it can vary throughout the day and I can have a few worse days followed by a few better ones and I suddenly think I’m finally “cured”. As a general rule, mornings are better until about lunch time or sometimes into the afternoon, with evenings worse as I get tired. Sometimes the symptoms aren’t noticeable or are less intense. I expected compensation to be quicker and for some people it can only take a couple months with others needing longer. Nevertheless, I definitely felt worse the first few months and progress has been slow, but it has occurred gradually.

Other than the lightheaded swaying dizziness I described (and tinnitus in the left ear), I have had no headaches, brain fog or any of the other symptoms people have described on this forum. I have no problem driving, sitting, standing or even walking up and down stairs – mine is only when I’m walking. I read some of your posts and your symptoms seem to have been worse or more extreme than mine, at least at the start. Mine are chronic, but perhaps “low level” compared to those others have faced. 

As mentioned, I was certain my symptoms were the result of an inflammatory reaction to the vaccine since I also got a nasty cold sore, which I sometimes get when I’m fighting any type of virus. Although I’ve never had a virus hit my inner ear, it can occur after a cold or flu. Some people have it after Covid infection and obviously it can occur after the various vaccines! My understanding is that inner ear system is very delicate so any inflammation can cause vestibular problems that can last for some time. As the ENT told me, even if the inflammation diminishes, you can still have the problem.


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Adelaide
(@adelaide)
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Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 31
 

@ladyd Hi there - I wanted to see how things are going with you? It sounds like you're still dealing with it! I've posted the past few days and can report that things are generally a bit better and I've started seeing a vestibular physiotherapist in person rather than having "email consultations" as I had before. She did a full assessment and found I have decent balance function in many areas, but am still overly dependent on my eyes for movement and balance - some people apparently naturally rely more on proprioception and other senses so they compensate quicker than those of us who are "visual people". She's encouraging me to do more balancing and other exercises with eyes closed and also to watch optokinetic videos. Cheers.

 


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altennyson
(@tennyson77)
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Joined: 11 months ago
Posts: 81
 

@nickpaul I had my Johnson and Johnson shot in the left arm, and the damage was to my right ear.  That said, the vertigo only happened on my next shot, which was Moderna, and I had that in the right arm.


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Mina
 Mina
(@mina)
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Joined: 11 months ago
Posts: 62
 
Posted by: @lookingforanswers

@mina Ever since I got the 2nd Pfizer vac in July I have lost weight and I eat constantly but can’t put any back on. And also lost muscle mass. Have you experienced that or insomnia and dry mouth? 

I'm sorry you're going through these symptoms. I'm losing weight and muscle mass. Yes, i'm suffering from insomnia. I had dry mouth at first but it got better. Stay strong.


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KitKat
(@lmkk)
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Joined: 9 months ago
Posts: 435
 
Posted by: @jacquelynsauriol

This forum is sponsored by the WHO who brought you the jabs in the first place.

Here is a good interview on the footballers falling, and some honest talk, this will get me kicked  off

so bye

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/video/2022/02/professional-athletes-dropping-left-right-pro-footballer-commentator-goes-on-the-record/?utm_source=right-rail-latest

Thanks for sharing this was an interesting watch. I wish more people in the media would stand up and question our governments.


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Susie
(@lookingforanswers)
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@mina thank you for your response. I was curious what your other symptoms are , if you don’t mind me asking? And what you have done? I have a page full. 😞 


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Cary L
(@carym23)
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Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 75
 

@jennifergrnd This sounds like most of our symptoms. Don't know how many posts you have read but most of us have the symptoms for months and none of us have gotten any real answers for what is happening. I would recommend you print a few posts from here that sound similar to your situation and take it with you to your neuro appt. Early on, all doctors were rejecting the idea that theses random, weird symptoms were caused by the vaccine but hopefully your neuro has seen a few cases and will accept the possibility of vaccine injury. 

The good news is that most people have symptoms diminish significantly over time and many get back to normal. Go through the posts if you have time because these symptoms are random, they come and go and change over time. I often think I'm losing my mind then I come to this forum and find many are having the same symptoms and realize the symptoms are crazy and I'm not as crazy as I thought.

Take care.


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Inasweatermood
(@simplicity2378)
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Has anyone here been diagnosed with pppd? What has been your experience?


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